From: ³Eric
Burgess² < zteecher@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday,
July 15, 2003 9:37 AM
Subject: the
bottom line...
aside from the
political posturing from left and right, the dubya administrationıs stated
reason for launching the war was to rid iraq of WMDs. the bottom line is that
there is NO evidence that iraq possesses, produces or concealed nuclear,
chemical or biological weapons. dubya can talk all he wants about the ³darn
good² intelligence and even slyly change his stance to a belief in a weapons
³program² but what it all boils down to is the aftermath of an illegal war
which continues to average an american death nearly every single day. unlike
cheney i am not ³comfortable² with the hundreds of thousands of american
military personnel looking like siting ducks in the middle of the
allah-forsaken desert. but then iım just a liberal who supports howard dean.
peace,
eb
============================================
From: ³THE KID²
<the-kid@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 12 -
Step Program
Date: Tue, 15
Jul 2003 10:43:32 -0700
³Overcoming
Liberalism: A 12-Step Program² By Jeremy Robb
Several months
ago, I heard a radio host refer to liberalism as a ³mental disorder.² As odd as
this concept might seem, I think I actually agree with him. Iıve seen
liberalism turn some of the most intelligent people I know into
propaganda-spewing robots who care only about the message, not the inaccuracies
behind the message. Emotion always trumps logic for them, regardless of the
blatantly obvious.
Given the
difficulty in bringing liberals into the light, I thought it might be helpful
to provide them with a 12-step program that could make it easier for a
successful transition into reality. As conservatives, we have to remember that
we can only be supportive to liberals in this program.
They cannot do
it alone, but we also cannot do it for them.
The Program:
Step 1:
Admitting that youıre a liberal
This is the
first step for every liberal on the way to recovery. It is important to
understand that youıre not ³progressive,² ³moderate,² or ³enlightened.² Youıre
a liberal, and you need to be honest with yourself about that fact.
Step 2: Pledge
to support your beliefs with facts
Realize that
truth is more important than moral superiority and is the only way to come over
to reality. You must research beyond propaganda from the Sierra Club, Hillary
Clinton, and CNN (the Communist News Network) to understand things as they
really exist in the world. You can no longer argue based on ³feelings² or
emotion. You will actually need to back up your arguments with real
information. This is a difficult step, because it means you canıt be lazy any
more.
Step 3: Love
America
This may be the
most difficult step for those of you who are hippies and peaceniks. Admitting
that the country you hate actually stands as a beacon to defend freedom
throughout the world can make some of you physically ill.
You might want
to make a visit to a military cemetery to better understand that these men and
women gave their lives so that you could spew hatred.
Otherwise, you
would currently be living in a police state that would never let you wear that
nasty patchouli oil, let alone speak out against your government.
Step 4: Take a
college level economics class
Iıve always
defined a Socialist as someone whoıs never taken an economics class. Most
Socialists Iıve spoke with would have a hard time balancing their checkbooks,
let alone explaining the simple concept of supply-and-demand. Itıs time to
flush your complete ignorance of basic economics down the toilet and understand
how the world actually functions.
This concept
will be very important for the next steps that involve communism, facts about
corporations, and the inefficiencies of government.
Step 5: Say ³no²
to Communism and Socialism
While this
concept is obvious to most of the free world, it is an important step in your
recovery process. If you have difficulty with this step, spend a week living
and working in Cuba.
Step 6:
Corporations are not evil
If youıre
reading this article online or in an e-mail, itıs thanks to corporations. If
you get some kind of paycheck, you can thank corporations.
If you work for
a non-profit or the government, you still have to thank corporations. The
non-profit sector and the government wouldnıt have any money to pay you without
corporations. It is also important that you understand that making a profit
doesnıt equate to ³greed² or exploitation.
Capitalism has
created the greatest society in our worldıs history.
Even communist
countries need corporations to survive, so enjoy a nice, hot cup of reality.
Step 7: The
government is inefficient
If you are one
of those liberals who believe the government should tax us more in order to
take care of society, you need to pay special attention to this step. You need
to realize that government bureaucracy will waste most of your tax dollars,
while the private sector will put your money to much better use. Even most
Democrat politicians understand this to some degree, which is why Hillaryıs
socialist healthcare proposal was voted down by a majority of both Democrats
and Republicans. Go to your local post office or call the IRS to ask a tax
question if you need a reminder about government inefficiency.
Step 8: The
earth is not your ³mother,² and sheıs not dying
The time has now
come to stop your donations to Greenpeace, The Sierra Club, and every other
EnviroNazi organization to which you belong. Face the reality that the earth,
society, and our environment are better off today than ever in recorded history
and that they are continuing to improve.
I realize that
many of you tree huggers will have a very difficult time letting go of the
Douglas Fir on this one. I would suggest reading The Skeptical Environmentalist
by Bjorn Lomborg. Mr. Lomborg is a former member of Greenpeace and is currently
a statistics professor at a university in Denmark. He set out to prove the
world was in bad shape and ended up surprising himself by proving the exact
opposite.
Step 9: Stop
smoking the wacky tobaccy
Okay, some of
you might need to enter another 12-step program to complete this step.
Marijuana is distorting your sense of reality, and you need to stop using it.
Besides, youıll save a fortune on snacks.
Step 10: Eat a
hamburger
If God didnıt
intend for us to eat animals, he wouldnıt have made them out of meat. You can
put your sprouts and tofu on the hamburger, but get some meat into you. Youıll
look and feel better than you ever imagined. You can always remind yourself
that Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian to get you through this step.
Step 11: Stop
re-writing political history
Itıs now time to
admit that Bill Clinton is a lying-cheating-sexist-racist-rapist jackass,
Hillary Clinton is one of the worst role models for women in this country, Al
Gore really did lose the 2000 election by every vote tabulation you attempt
(trying to get homeless people to vote for him for a pack of cigarettes didnıt
work either), Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War and didnıt create the homeless
problem, John McCain is not a typical Republican, and Jimmy Carter is a nice
man but has one of the worst presidential records of anyone in history.
Step 12: Be a
missionary
Once you have
completed the previous steps to overcoming liberalism, itıs time for you to
share this awakening with others who are not as fortunate.
Go out amongst
the liberal sheep and spread the good word of your freedom from the chains of
ignorance that once bound you. Congratulations, and welcome to reality.
============================================
Date: Tue, 15
Jul 2003 11:24:12 -0700 (PDT)
From:
"Joseph Vasquez² <jvasque8@yahoo.com> |
Subject: Re: 12
- Step Program
so liberalism is
a disease. it should be eradicated, right? well, i remember a couple of groups
who sought to purify their countries by eliminating liberal/progressive
thought: the soviets and the nazis. so the right wing of this nation is finally
willing to show its true colors. red neck, blue collar, and white trash
(remember of course, that one need not be of european decent to fit this
description. hell, one need not be blue collar, just look at ward connerlly).
in any case, any time the right wants to start the witch hunt and run
liberals/progressives out of the country, i say, to quote our illustrious
leader, bring it on! reading your 12 step program is quite entertaining, since
it assumes that right logic is the only logic. does this mean that ollie north
is an american hero for selling guns to the evil iranian empire so the funds
could be used to fund the freedom fighting contras who, as they battled the
evil sandinistas, engaged in drug trafficking and crimes against humanity?
also, the communist news network? are you kidding me? is right logic so
perverse that it ignores cnnıs allegiance to profit rather than ideology? i
guess the right wing should be notified that the term ³right² refers to the
location of a group. in fact, the conservatives, as history/legend tells us,
who served the king ( i forget which king) sat to the right of said king. the
reformers, or opposition leaders, sat to his left.
therefore, the
³right wing² refers to the group sitting on the right, not the ³correct² side.
but, to further complicate things (as i love to do), when right and left were
determined, whose right was referenced? the kingıs? the subjects facing the
king?
who knows?
maybe, the attempt to place a definition itself proves to be flawed. to quote
tin cup, perfection is unattainable. why stifle debate when that just means
that stagnation would set in? with out the left, who would the right have to
oppose? and vice versa (and verse vice-a). in the end, no matter who wins the
next election, or the one after that, political debate will continue . . .
hopefully. who really wants to end debate? and why do they? do they truly have
the answer? or are they just scaredy cats, afraid of change and new ideas and
discourse? (and by ³they², i also include liberals/progressives who call for
the eradication of the right . . . begrudgingly).
joe
p.s. eric, you
may have converted me, though dean still looks like elmer fudd on crank.
============================================
From: ³THE KID²
<the-kid@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 12
- Step Program
Date: Tue, 15
Jul 2003 11:48:14 -0700
LOL huh?
Lighten up Joey,
itıs just a little ³Right Wing² (that history/legend tells us, who served the
king ( i forget which king) sat to the right of said king. the reformers, or
opposition leaders, sat to his left.
therefore, the
³right wing² refers to the group sitting on the right, not the ³correct² side.
but, to further complicate things (as i love to do ³YES YOU DO²), when right
and left were determined, whose right was referenced? the kingıs? the subjects
facing the king?
who knows?
maybe, the attempt to place a definition itself proves to be flawed.) HUMOR!
Although I do
believe ³CNN² isnıt a Communist New Network, it should be called ³SNN²
Socialist News Network.
WIND HIM UP, AND
WATCH HIM GOOOOOOOOO! LOL
Jack
============================================
From: ³Eric
Burgess² < zteecher@yahoo.com >
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: 12
- Step Program
suffice it to say,
i am not surprised by jackıs attempt at ³humor².
eb
============================================
From: ³THE KID²
<the-kid@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 12
- Step Program
Date: Tue, 15
Jul 2003 13:24:30 -0700
Youıre not???
I guess only
³Libıs² have the market at ³Attempts² at humor...
============================================
From: ³Eric
Burgess² < zteecher@yahoo.com >
Sent: Tuesday,
July 15, 2003 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: 12
- Step Program
³attempt² was
precisely my point.
============================================
Date: Tue, 15
Jul 2003 16:33:54 -0700 (PDT)
From:
"Joseph Vasquez² <jvasque8@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 12
- Step Program
i apologize for
not labeling my previous email an example of satire. i shall not make the same
mistake again. please forgive me if my words caused any discomfort to your
otherwise peachy keen day.
joe
p.s. satire is
the use of humor to illuminate a serious subject (and to provide the author
with a good laugh)
p.s.s. pat
roberston is asking people to pray that god might make room on the supreme
court for more conservatives. is god still in the smiting business? who should
he smite? oıconnor? and finally, doesnıt he have bigger fish to smite? (the
author is on a roll today)
============================================
From: ³THE KID²
<the-kid@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 12
- Step Program
Date: Tue, 15
Jul 2003 16:47:26 -0700
Apology
accepted.
p.s.s. God is a
³Sovereign God² who makes no distinctions between ³Small² or ³Big² fish.
Cımon Joey, I
thought you read your Bible for reasons other than just to scoff at it?
Jack
============================================
Date: Tue, 15
Jul 2003 17:19:28 -0700 (PDT)
From:
"Joseph Vasquez² <jvasque8@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: 12 - Step
Program
WARNING: THE
FOLLOWING MAY CONTAIN SATIRE.
so youıre saying
that the sovereign should kill off oıconnor? cımon kid, i thought youıd
understand that asking god to make room on the court was about as ridiculous as
asking god to help your team win the super bowl. shouldnıt divine intervention
require more than a ³oh please oh please oh please²? but, alas, i guess one
cannot question anotherıs religious principles, as john milton suggests and
even urges, without being deemed a scoffer. my point, as should have been
apparent, was to mock the most revered robertson, but i guess any man of god is
above reproach. by this logic, is oral roberts indeed a saint, worthy of the
millions sent to him to do godıs work(like building a university in his,
roberts, name)? was jim baker infallible until the day he confessed(to drugging
then having some sort of sex with jessica hahn)? cımon lil jacky . . . reread
the joke and get a chuckle . . . robertson is again of his gourd!
joe
============================================
Eric Burgess
< zteecher@yahoo.com > wrote:
oral roberts?
pat robertson? jim baker? jimmy swaggert? in the eyes of god (sovereign or not)
these guys are pussies! itıs all about benny hinn, baby!
(note to brian:
thatıs benny HINN not benny HILL.) who else can heal former heavyweight
champion of the world evander ³the real deal² holyfield? bennyıs the one who
should have that nickname. thatıs right, none of the aforementioned hacks have
anything on my boy benny. i mean, seriously, he claims he was miraculously
cured by god of severe stuttering when he was younger.
plus, the dudeıs
books have outsold every other major christian author by far yep, even the
corporal punishment doctor himself, james dobson, got spanked by benny boy.
(sorry, i gave into temptation with that last one). wait a minute *light bulb*
forget howard dean. benny hinn for president. that would most certainly
guarantee that god would be on our side.
peace,
eb
p.s. joe,
remember, after you jump on the benny hinn bandwagon you need to curb your
blasphemous words against the above disciples of the lord almighty. he said,
³The Bible warns us clearly that we must not attack men of God no matter how
sinful they may have become or wicked in our eyes.² word to your father.
============================================
Date: Tue, 15
Jul 2003 21:50:37 -0700 (PDT)
From:
"Joseph Vasquez² <jvasque8@yahoo.com> |
Subject: Re: 12
- Step Program
benny hinn is
now my personal guide. i have ordered the video, the dvd and the book on tape.
my life is turning for the better. i love big bro . . . i mean, i love benny
hinn.
joe
p.s. thank you
for setting me straight eric. you rule man. all bow before the glory that is
the hinn!
============================================
Date: Wed, 16
Jul 2003 00:42:25 -0700
Subject: Re: 12
- Step Program
From: ³THE KID²
<the-kid@sbcglobal.net>
This is exactly
why Jesus said to follow ³Him² and not men.
Yet I'm still
trying to find that verse ("The Bible warns us clearly that we must not
attack men of God no matter how sinful they may have become or wicked in our
eyes.²) you came up with Eric.
Where exactly
did you come up with that? I don't think I've ever seen that one before?
Although, it's
unfortunate that in your attempt at humor (Geez even I know that Hinn's comb
over is the funniest and yet at the same time, scariest thing I've ever seen,)
you have managed to associate Jesus with men who have embarrassed not only
themselves but those of the same faith, which gives people like you ample ammo
to make fun of them and Jesus. Which is highly understandable and expected.
This quote comes to mind... ³The word of God is very plain as to duty of
rebuking sin, from the neglect into which the work has fallen, one might have
imagined that it was left optional, or allowed, rather than commanded.² Charles
H. Spurgeon
But what is also
sad is that people who tend to objectify Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior (God)
based on those people who claim to be ³Born Again Christians² and then
seriously do something stupid, illegal or just absolutely blasphemous. But people
like that are the ones who go to the ³Spiritual Buffet² and pick and choose
bits and pieces from so called ³Religions² to suit their needs or think they
know God's word from the Bible and come up with their own ³interpretation² of
his word.
And these people
don't hold themselves up to any moral standard whatsoever, other than that they
consider themselves to be ³Good² people. Yet are quick to point out those who
are willing to try and fail from time to time and then use that as an excuse to
dismiss ³Born Again Christians² and Jesus because of those who have blasphemed
him by saying things like ³Well if oral roberts, pat robertson, jim baker and
jimmy swaggert are so called Christians, and they did the things they did,
forget it, I'll never be a Christian.² I know this, because at one time, I was
one of them.
And as I've told
you numerous times in our many discussions about this topic, ³Religion² is
man's attempt to reach God (Ceremony, Repetitive Ritualism, Works or Idolatry
e.g. No meat on Friday's, Lent, Saying the Rosary, Praying to Mary or Saints,
Wearing Special underwear, lighting candles, going on missions, etc. etc. None
of which is even Scriputally based, at all) whereas accepting Jesus Christ as
your Lord and Savior, is a ³Personal Relationship² with ³Him² without all of
the aforementioned, plain and simple. You pray to him and only him, you worship
him and him only, plain and simple. But here's the catch, now you are morally
accountable in the eye's of God to live by his word as best as you can, which
is the Bible.u warns that idolaters will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
That's why many
people refuse to accept him as such, because they do not want any of that moral
accountability, and nobody can or ever will be able to live up to his word without
sinning or coming up short (myself included). And this is on a daily basis. You
ask him for forgiveness and he will forgive you. Now before Joey jumps on the
³So uh, if I kill somebody just because I want to, Jesus will forgive me?
and then I can
go out and kill somebody else and he'll still forgive me?² Jesus knows your
heart, and he knows one that is lying (e.g. I would say that Hinn falls into
that category by deceiving all those people, but he too can TRULY repent and be
forgiven)
So, who is God
to you? (For non atheists, that's a whole other topic for another day) Is he
only a God (Higher Power) of love and mercy who would never judge anyone and
never cast anyone into Hell? If that's your God, then you're right! Your God
couldn't cast anyone into Hell because he doesn't exist. He's a figment of your
imagination. You've ³Created² a God in your own mind that you're more
comfortable with.
You may call it
your ³Personal Belief² but God calls it idolatry. It's the oldest sin in the
book, and the Bible warns that Idolaters will not inherit the Kingdom of
heaven. For all have sinned and have fallen short of the Glory of God.
Maybe you think
God is good and because of his goodness he will overlook your sins? But if you
knew of a human judge who turned a blind eye to the crimes of a guilty
rapist... would you describe him as a ³Good² judge? No. That would be a
³Corrupt² judge. God could never be a corrupt judge.
I'll leave you
with a little something from Charles H. Spurgeon,
³Barking at
Thunder²
The first time
our young dog heard the thunder it startled him. He leaped up, gazed around in
anger, and then began to bark at the disturber of his peace. When the next
crash came he grew furious, and flew round the room, seeking to tear in pieces
the intruder who dared thus to defy him. It was an odd scene. The yelping of a
dog pitted against the artillery of heaven! Poor foolish creature, to think
that his bark could silence the thunder-clap, or intimidate the tempest!
What was he
like? His imitators are not far to seek. Among us at this particular juncture
there are men of an exceedingly doggish breed who go about howling at their
Maker. They endeavor to bark the Almighty out of existence, to silence the
voice of his gospel, and to let him know that their rest is not to be disturbed
by his warnings. We need not particularize; the creatures are often heard, and
are very fond of public note, even when it takes an unfriendly form. Let them
alone.
They present a
pitiful spectacle. We could smile at them if we did not feel much more
compelled to weep. The elements of a tragedy are wrapt up in this comedy.
To-day they defy their Maker, but to-morrow they may be crushed beneath his
righteous indignation. At any rate, the idea of fearing them must never occur
to us; their loudest noise is vocalized folly; their malice is impotent, their
fury is mere fume. ³He that sitteth in the heavens doth laugh: the Lord doth
have them in derision." C. H. S.
Jack
Word to the Non
Believers!
Nobody talks so
constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God. Heywood Broun
============================================
From: ³Clark A.
A.² <clark.a.@gte.net>
To: ³Eric
Burgess² <zteecher@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: 12
- Step Program
Date: Wed, 16
Jul 2003 00:44:21 -0700
Hey Eric,
Humor us...but
DONıT make a mockery of God or Blaspheme Him. ³In the eyes of God, these guys
are² His children...NOT what you mentioned. Keep it light, but DONıT disrespect
your creator.
God Bless,
Clark.
P.S. As you
recall...one of the Ten Commandments says, ³There shall be no other Godıs
before me². This includes your ³worship filled² viewpoint of Benny Hinn. Anyone
who glorifies themselves (like Benny Hinn does) and doesnıt give the ³glory to
God², is skating on thin ice.
============================================
Date: Wed, 16
Jul 2003 11:01:26 -0700 (PDT)
From:
"Joseph Vasquez² <jvasque8@yahoo.com> |
Subject: Re: 12
- Step Program
first off . . .
clark, you want off the list? ask whoever put you on here to take you off or
donıt respond to my gibberish . . . after all, that is all it is. now, you and
the lil kid both fail to realize that my attack on ³men of god² is just that,
an attack on THEM. one aspect of both your replies bugged me: why does the fact
that i question or mock human frailties immediately make me an immoral
nonbeliever when the people i mock is somehow associated with religion(look
christians, there are other religions out there that i am trying to offend as
well, so stop hogging all the glory!)? seriously, reread my postings. they
attack MEN, not any god or God. by the way, ³thou shalt have no god before me²
can be, and has been, taken to mean that the christian god comes first, then
all other gods. many early versions of the church survived because of this
flexible reading. but, if we are to take the bible literally, i guess we should
stone those guilty of adultery. and homosexuals. and women should retreat to
the hither regions of the town during their periods. and all those who violate
the law should be punished accordingly. oh wait, that law was superseded by
jesus when he said ³love thy neighbor as thyself.² i often forget that, as do
many fundamentalists. for the love of pete (and i do love pete),if we take the
bible (a text written by men with ³divine inspiration²) literally, ghandi is
rotting in hell. remember kid(s), i am not disrespecting your religion or you,
i am disrespecting those who suck (i.e. benny hinn, pat robertson, etc.) if
your belief somehow binds you to them in such a manner that makes you feel defensive,
then consider yourself mocked as well. but as you have made very clear, you are
not to be counted among such unsavory characters. one question iıd like to
clear up, i am not an atheist. i just have the nagging suspicion that there is
no one right faith and am still searching for one that fits. for the most part,
itıs catholicism with a sprinkle of beat-writer buddhism, but not atheism. i do
not pretend to know that much. hell, death is the undiscovered territory for a
reason. iıll deal with that when i get there, to paraphrase confucius (and that
means following the golden rule, which, by the way, is found in many faiths
that pre- and postdate christianity). by the way, has anyone read the gospel of
thomas? i have heard it compares interestingly with the gospel of john.
apparently it was left out of the new testament by a pope who decided it didnıt
fit his version of the truth. somehow i donıt think he was divinely inspired to
act in such a manner, but who knows.
joe
(or joseph i
suppose, but i prefer jedadiah at times too; hell call me what ever you want,
just call me)
p.s. the above
contained hints of satire.
p.s.s. in the
interest of being painfully clear: i didnıt associate jesus with the scum of
the earth, they did (i.e. robertson, falwell, baker, swaggert, hinn, etc.)
focus your rants at them.
ps.s.s. so iım
still unclear on this since no one cleared it up, does god love the tampa bay
bucs more?
i mean, they did
win the super bowl.
============================================
From: ³Clark A.
A.² <clark.a.@gte.net>
Subject: FW: 12
- Step Program
Date: Thu, 17
Jul 2003 00:37:00 -0700
Joseph,
(Ironically, this is my 9 year old sonıs name, too)
Iıve had a
change of heart...leave me ON your list.
Usually satire
is used when one wants to cover-up REAL emotions and insecurities. Your
self-professed ³confusion² on RELIGION would be obvious to Helen Keller. (Now
THATıs ³satire²) (LOL)
To clarify your
comment of ³Why does the fact that I question or mock human frailties
immediately make me an immoral nonbeliever(?)², I donıt recall addressing this
in my response...BUT...since YOU brought it up...let me CORRECT (clarify) the
situation. We are ALL born as immoral nonbeliever(s).
We ALL sin and
fall short of the Glory of God. God also says that the wages of sin is DEATH.
With this in mind, we ALL have a problem, donıt we.
If you were in
court for a $150 speeding ticket and did NOT have a penny to your name, what do
you think the judge would do? If he was a JUST judge, he would enforce the law
unbiased and put you in jail. Imagine this...if you told the judge you felt he
should let you go simply because you are a ³good person². What do you think
heıd say? Heıd probably think youıre nuts, then tell the guards to handcuff you
and take you away. With this in mind...as you were being taken away in your
handcuffs for the ³crime² youıve committed, a stranger comes into the
courtroom, tells the guards to STOP, and puts $150 cash into the hands of the
judge to pay your fine for you!
What an AMAZING
gift youıve just received! This is what Jesus Christ did on the Cross. Heıs
paid the price for YOUR sins! This analogy only means something to someone who
has SEEN their depths of their depravity and sees the NEED for this gift. If
you walk around life blinded into thinking ³Iım a good person, so God will
allow me into Heaven and Iıll avoid hell because Iıve said 2,276 Hail Maryıs,
passed out 4,588 Watchtower or Awake magazines from door to door, etc.² (You
get the point) then youıll be sadly disappointed on Judgment Day. Like the
gospel says, the ONLY way to heaven is through Jesus Christ...because he is the
only SINLESS man (Not Buddha, Not Gandhi, Not Muhammad, Not the Pope) to ever
³take our sins² upon himself. Accept Jesus Christ as YOUR Lord and Savior, and
enjoy the peace of knowing your ³sin problem² has then been taken care of.
No Jesus, No
Peace...Know Jesus, Know Peace.
God Bless,
Clark.
P.S. I have
experienced ³firsthand² the GRACE of God personally in my life...BEFORE I came
to Jesus Christ for Salvation, I used to drink alcohol, Iıve smoked marijuana,
Iıve had a few lines of cocaine, Iıve committed Adultery, participated in the
decision to have an abortion, etc., etc.
Itıs through the
GRACE of God, that Jesus has ³reckoned the old man dead² as I have been ³born
again². (This should also bring CLARITY to the cliche as well.)
P.P.S. Rams
rule! (LOL) I agree, God could probably care less about who wins the Super
Bowl...unless itıs Kurt Warner taking center stage (like he did) and saying,
³First things first, Iıd like to give all the Glory to my Lord and Savior Jesus
Christ...² during the Super Bowl postgame speech.
To God be all
the Glory!
============================================
Date: Wed, 16
Jul 2003
11:50:41 -0700
(PDT)
From:
"tad douglas² <knight5517@yahoo.com>
Question-what does the present
administration(those calling the shots),the catholic church,enron. world
com,etc. etc. etc.have in common- ANSWER- old rich white guys who share the
same mantra DENY, ³DEFLECT, DEFEND-DENY,DEFLECT,DEFEND-DENY,DEFLECT,DEFEND².
============================================
Date: Wed, 16
Jul 2003 11:57:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: ³Eric
Burgess² <zteecher@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 12
- Step Program
apparently joe
and i have both been scolded by clark, yet clark has decided to reply to us
privately and independantly as opposed to continuing the thread. in keeping
with the spirit of these debates i forwarded his response to me and now i give
you his reponses to joe:
---------
#1 Hey Liberal
looney...please REMOVE me from YOUR list.
God Bless
America!
Clark.
#2 Hey Joseph,
Humor us...but DONıT make a mockery of God or Blaspheme Him. I donıt bow to ANY
human being (much less Benny Hinn), I only bow to my CREATOR.
There will come
a day (as scripture promises - Revelation) were ³like it or not² EVERY knee
shall bow to Jesus Christ. Keep it light, but DONıT disrespect your creator.
God Bless,
Clark.
P.S. As you
recall...one of the Ten Commandments says, ³There shall be no other Godıs
before me². This includes your ³worship filled² viewpoint of Benny Hinn. Anyone
who glorifies themselves (like Benny Hinn does) and doesnıt give the ³glory to
God², is skating on thin ice. I would be careful (if I were you) to even JOKE
about bowing down to anyone other than Jesus Christ.
---------
eric again:
ooookkkkaaaayyyy.....
now seriously, clark, you have clearly missed the point of these debates. i
guess this is jackıs fault (you know, the guy who added you to the list) for
not fully explaining the reason why we engage in them. and remember, dude, at
the end of the day we should still be able respect each otherıs viewpoints. if
you canıt find the tolerance to do so canıt you need to PRAY for some. (see,
that was me mocking you, not god.)
============================================
Date: Wed, 16
Jul 2003 13:13:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: ³Eric
Burgess² <zteecher@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 12
- Step Program
oh, and just as
jesus becomes the topic, ³neon² deion sanders had to go and make christians
look like cheap bastards, too:
³Former Cowboy
sued over auto repair bill Associated Press²
DALLAS -- A
judge listened to testimony Monday and is expected to rule soon whether former
Dallas Cowboy Deion Sanders owes money to a body shop for work done on his
vintage 1961 Lincoln Continental convertible.
State District
Judge Joe Cox took the case under advisement after the one-day trial, said
court administrator Donna Bouthton.
The owner of the
repair shop said Sanders wanted to pay only $1,500 of the $4,265.57 bill,
saying that Jesus had informed him that was all he needed to pay.
³Itıs the
Praise Jesusı discount,ıı attorney Ed Edson told The Dallas Morning News in
Mondayıs editions.
Edson said he
has been trying to collect the bill from Sanders since 2001 on behalf of Phil
Compton, the owner of the car repair business.
Through court
filings, the player says the accusations are untrue. Sanders was in the
courtroom Monday but did not testify.
Anthony Montoya,
a representative for Sanders, had contacted Compton and told him the
convertible needed to be towed to his shop for repairs. The car had been
repaired before by Compton.
Papers filed in
his lawsuit stated that he and his mechanics installed a new radiator and
thermostat, flushed the engine, repaired the carıs electrical system and
gauges, replaced the starter motor, removed contaminated fuel and rebuilt the
carburetor. Mechanics for Magrathea Inc., Comptonıs company, had replaced
gaskets and hoses.
Sanders had
approved and Montoya had approved all the repairs, according to the lawsuit.
But when the car was returned to the CBS sportscasterıs home in Plano on Nov.
5, 2001, Compton said Pilar Sanders, the former Cowboyıs wife, ³answered the
door, took the keys and invoices, started the car to make sure it was working
and went back into the locked house, refusing to return the keys or invoices.ıı
Sandersı
bodyguards and housekeepers then moved their cars in front of and behind the
Lincoln so that it couldnıt be towed back to the garage, the lawsuit stated.
When Sanders
drove up, he refused to pay the invoice amount, handing Compton a $1,500 check
and saying, ³Praise Jesus ... I follow what in my heart Iım told to pay.ıı
============================================
From: ³THE KID²
<the-kid@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 12
- Step Program
Date: Wed, 16
Jul 2003 13:31:07 -0700
My Bad, I didnıt
fully explain as you say ³The Spirit of these Debates,² which I just did before
I began typing this.
Donıt you think
anyone would have felt the same jumping in right in the middle of this not
knowing how long theyıve been going on? Especially not knowing the extent of
Mockery that both sides (Me vs EVERYONE ELSE) are willing to go to?
Cut him a little
slack you ³Liberal Looney² LOL I have been in therapy since Diana laid into me
so his response is quite tame compared to hers.
As ³Wooderson²
said... Keep On Keeping On.
============================================
From: ³THE KID²
<the-kid@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 12
- Step Program
Date: Wed, 16
Jul 2003 13:53:44 -0700
Awwww, so now
your saying your son wonıt have a role model because of that?
But then again,
with your history of us Christians for the last several years (Me in
particular) you know that weıre all spineless, meek, cheek turning patsies huh?
Especially me, right?
The shock and
horror to know that ³GULP!² a CHRISTIAN who was told that the work he wanted
done was going to cost him $1500 and when that wasnıt the price, he only paid
what he was originally quoted. Not like any NON CHRISTIAN would do that, God
Forbid. http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/6303623.htm Once again
Eric, you never let the FACTS get in the way of the TRUTH!
Keep ³Barking at
the Thunder² my friend.
Jack
============================================
From: ³Clark A.
A.² <clark.a.@gte.net>
Subject: RE: 12
- Step Program
Date: Wed, 16
Jul 2003 22:35:28 -0700
Hi Eric,
Still as fast as
you used to be in the outfield? You rock at softball!
Anyway, since I
have no way of ³forwarding² to ³the list²...please feel free to add my earlier
response to Joseph to ³the list² to ³keep in the spirit² of fairness...
SEE BELOW...
Joseph,
(Ironically, this is my 9 year old sonıs name, too)
Iıve had a
change of heart...leave me ON your list.
Usually satire
is used when one wants to cover-up REAL emotions and insecurities. Your
self-professed ³confusion² on RELIGION would be obvious to Helen Keller. (Now
THATıs ³satire²) (LOL)
To clarify your
comment of ³Why does the fact that I question or mock human frailties
immediately make me an immoral nonbeliever(?)², I donıt recall addressing this
in my response...BUT...since YOU brought it up...let me CORRECT (clarify) the
situation. We are ALL born as immoral nonbeliever(s).
We ALL sin and
fall short of the Glory of God. God also says that the wages of sin is DEATH.
With this in mind, we ALL have a problem, donıt we.
If you were in
court for a $150 speeding ticket and did NOT have a penny to your name, what do
you think the judge would do? If he was a JUST judge, he would enforce the law
unbiased and put you in jail. Imagine this...if you told the judge you felt he
should let you go simply because you are a ³good person². What do you think
heıd say? Heıd probably think youıre nuts, then tell the guards to handcuff you
and take you away. With this in mind...as you were being taken away in your
handcuffs for the ³crime² youıve committed, a stranger comes into the
courtroom, tells the guards to STOP, and puts $150 cash into the hands of the
judge to pay your fine for you!
What an AMAZING
gift youıve just received! This is what Jesus Christ did on the Cross. Heıs
paid the price for YOUR sins! This analogy only means something to someone who
has SEEN their depths of their depravity and sees the NEED for this gift. If
you walk around life blinded into thinking ³Iım a good person, so God will
allow me into Heaven and Iıll avoid hell because Iıve said 2,276 Hail Maryıs,
passed out 4,588 Watchtower or Awake magazines from door to door, etc.² (You
get the point) then youıll be sadly disappointed on Judgment Day. Like the
gospel says, the ONLY way to heaven is through Jesus Christ...because he is the
only SINLESS man (Not Buddha, Not Gandhi, Not Muhammad, Not the Pope) to ever
³take our sins² upon himself. Accept Jesus Christ as YOUR Lord and Savior, and
enjoy the peace of knowing your ³sin problem² has then been taken care of.
No Jesus, No
Peace...Know Jesus, Know Peace.
God Bless,
Clark.
P.S. I have
experienced ³firsthand² the GRACE of God personally in my life...BEFORE I came
to Jesus Christ for Salvation, I used to drink alcohol, Iıve smoked marijuana,
Iıve had a few lines of cocaine, Iıve committed Adultery, participated in the
decision to have an abortion, etc., etc.
Itıs through the
GRACE of God, that Jesus has ³reckoned the old man dead² as I have been ³born
again². (This should also bring CLARITY to the cliche as well.) P.P.S. Rams
rule! (LOL) I agree, God could probably care less about who wins the Super
Bowl...unless itıs Kurt Warner taking center stage (like he did) and saying,
³First things first, Iıd like to give all the Glory to my Lord and Savior Jesus
Christ...² during the Super Bowl postgame speech.
To God be all
the Glory!
============================================
From: ³Clark A.
A.² <clark.a.@gte.net>
Subject: RE: 12
- Step Program
Date: Wed, 16
Jul 2003 23:38:15 -0700
Hey Eric,
Please explain
how the actions of ³Neon² Deion Sanders has any correlation with me or any
other Christian (besides possibly ³Neon² himself) being a ³cheap bastard²???
Thatıs like saying that ALL Catholics are child molesters because some priest
with a pedophile profile decides to invade and violate a few choir boys.
³Guilty by association² doesnıt work with the intelligent readers.
By the
way...pass this message on to ³the list² as well.
Jesus Saves!
Clark.
============================================
From: Eric
Burgess [mailto: zteecher@yahoo.com ]
Sent: Thursday,
July 17, 2003 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: FW: 12 - Step Program
yeah, um, first
off, your previous definition of satire seems like a personal one since it is
incorrect. i know dubya accused liberals of rewriting history, so i guess itıs
fair to say conservatives are rewriting writing. check it: ³sat7ire (n.)
sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose folly, vice, or stupidity.²
and that, my friend, is what what happening behind the curtains of my deion
sanders comment.
peace,
eb
============================================
From: ³Clark A.
A.² <clark.a.@gte.net>
Subject: RE: FW:
12 - Step Program
Date: Thu, 17
Jul 2003 21:59:49 -0700
Big E,
That was funny,
dude! I see at least 3 grammatical errors in YOUR writing.
Niiiiiccee! ;-)
Clark.
============================================
Date: Thu, 17
Jul 2003 22:10:21 -0700
Subject: Re: FW:
12 - Step Program
From: ³JAX BOX²
<jaxbox@sbcglobal.net>
OH SNAP!!!
HE DID NOT...
JUST CORRECT AN ENGLISH HONORS TEACHER ON HIS GRAMMATICAL ERRORS!
LOL
============================================
On Thursday,
July 17, 2003, at 10:33 PM,
Eric Burgess
wrote:
clark,
first, let me
apologize for going after you earlier. you are new to these debates and i
should, as jack rightly suggested, cut you some slack. from your latest
response to me it is clear that i bruised your sensitive ego, so i should just
stop here. but...
since you have
found it necessary to point out my ³errors² i guess you need the
ego-bolstering. please, enjoy the moment and bask as long as you need. if you
ever want to read one of my formal essays where structure and grammar count
just let me know. clearly (obviously a poor assumption for some readers) i am
unconcerned with such trifles when itıs the ideas that count.
while we are in
the mood shall i correct your latest two lines?
1) donıt
abbreviate
2) spell out all
numbers less than 10 (e.g. one, five, nine)
3) if you are
following capitalization rules DONıT do it to EMPHASIZE a POINT;
4) your use of
³Niiiiiccee!² is incorrect for two reasons:
A)
there is no need to strrrrreeeeetch out your words for effect. if you find the
onomatopoeia-like effect necessary you have already faaaiiiiiled as a writer to
make the point
B)
you placed the word in a place that is reserved for the written formula for
ending a letter. this means two things: i)
you end with a comma, leading to your signature. by ending with an exclamation
point you make it a sentence; but without a subject and predicate it is a
fragment. (e.g. ³jesus wept.²) ii)
the word is traditionally an adverb
5) donıt put a
period after your name. again, it is not a sentence.
if you need any
further assistance i invite you to sit in on my summer school class at rosemead
high school in room 16 from 7:30 a.m. to 1:26 p.m. monday through thursday.
peace, eb
p.s. profuse
apologies for any more errors. we canıt all be gospel writers.
===========================================
Date: Thu, 17
Jul 2003 22:53:47 -0700
Subject: Re: FW:
12 - Step Program
To: ³Eric
Burgess² <zteecher@yahoo.com>
From: ³JAX BOX²
<jaxbox@sbcglobal.net>
See what I mean
Dick? Subtle with a slight whiff of backhanded sarcasm... heıs the best! I saw
that one coming a mile away... LOL
Damn E, thatıs
exactly why I donıt ever make fun of anyone elseıs grammar, speech or typoıs.
That last
dressing down epitomized EVERY (Damn what rule was that?
number 2 or oh
crap wait was that spell out every number after 10 or before? and if that was
rule #3 oops three then I should spell it out with emphasizing in capitals if I
am following the capitalization rules so then I have to spell out #two instead
of typing it number 2 Damn!) english teacher I ever loathed and seemed to always
get throughout my skoolin years.
So many damn
rules just to communicate, and I liked to stretch my words out to make a point.
Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate!
jb
===========================================
From: ³Clark A.
A.² <clark.a.@gte.net>
Subject: RE: FW:
12 - Step Program
Date: Fri, 18
Jul 2003 00:16:58 -0700
Classic! That
was awesome! Youıve got an awesome sense of humor. ;-)
Laaaattttteeee!!!!
Clark.*^
P.S. Italians
donıt have ³sensitive egoıs² to bruise...although we have BIG hands and BIG
feet. With this in mind, I think wifey is calling me to ³service her²
(again..for the 3rd time tonight) in the other room.
P.P.S. Sorry for
the grammmmatticcalll errors. (LOL)
===========================================
Date: Fri, 18
Jul 2003 00:49:17 -0700 (PDT
From:
"Joseph Vasquez² <jvasque8@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: FW:
12 - Step Program
ok, so we got a
couple of italian stallions on our hands. i would first like to say that in no
way do i think either of you are pussies. you are both very macho and verile. i
am happy to hear that you are sevicing the wife clark, iım sure you can produce
many more hitler youths between you. what was once possibly a forum for true
discussion has broken down into a measuring of manhood. i am sure that the two
of you and michael savage can get together and show some left wing liberal
sodomites what happens when they mess with true blooded americans. but wait,
savage is a jew. is that ok with you two? having just finished watching
cabaret, i am feeling slightly uneasy.
berlin, hell all
of germany, was quite an interesting place before hitler and his crew took
over(i base that on other info, not just on the film). not that nationalistc
thugs could ever take over america, but isnıt it interesting that, just like
the nazis, the right wing has made an issue out of the attack on american
values posed by the left ( scaliaıs ³homosexual agenda² comment comes to mind).
now stay with me boys, cause hereıs where it gets tricky: intolerant christian
conservatives pose a threat to everyone. as i have made a point of saying
before, and dr. winters has reiterrated in his last email, true conservative
thinkers do more than just rant and rave.
you want common
ground jack, then how about this: bush is laying the ground work for an american
empire. to tell you the truth, it was nearly complete before he got into
office. you see, since we won the cold war, there is really no one else to
challenge us. do you think this is the best way to protect american values?
a country that
began by expelling an imperial regime (letıs face it, that is what britain was
fast becoming) will now impose its own thoughts on others?
say what you
will about the panthers, the brown berets, the red family. they were
reactionaries who were defeated, but had they won, and they been in charge of
the history books, would they have been different than paul reveere? the
subjective nature of life is truly more difficult to grasp than either of you
seem to realize. should mel gibson be silenced?
no, but in the
face of intolerance on a daily basis, who could blame anyone for skewering
someone whose agenda mirrors that of those who have oppressed for ages? the
bottom line has to be this: how can we make life on earth more humane? killing,
segregating, and ostracizing are not the answer.
joe
p.s. please
think about what was just written before you respond. what do you stand for
besides anger, revenge, and bravado?
===========================================